were celebrated. for the first time you see president obama seen as a person that actually pacify the western world america with the arab world. but today, let's look what's happening in the united states. some people are telling -- >> we're going to have to -- >> don't vote because he's secretly a muslim. is there a war >> we're going to continue this discussion on our website. rula, thank you for joining me tonight. "the ed show" is up next. stay with us and watched this online. good evening, americans, and welcome to "the ed show" from new york. thank you for joining us. we have breaking news off the top tonight. i think this may be one of the biggest turns of the campaign. today a recording of mitt romney

at a private fundraiser has surfaced. it reveals his frank, candid opinion of nearly half of the american population. it was recorded without romney's knowledge. and it was provided to a magazine as well as nbc news's own michael isikoff. here's part of the tape.

>> romney didn't know that was being recorded. he was speaking to donors. the romney campaign has responded tonight. mitt romney wants to help all americans struggling in the obama economy as he has made known all year. he is concerned about the growing number of people who are dependent on federal government. nearly one in six americans in poverty and the 23 million americans struggling to find work.

mitt romney's plan creates 12 million new jobs in four years, grows the economy and moves americans off of government dependency and into jobs. folks, this is an admission as far as mitt romney is concerned. there are two americas and he only cares about one of them. does mitt romney really think that people in this country want to be on medicare and want to be poor, want to be disabled, want to have assistance? is that really the path that he thinks that americans want to take? and most americans i believe tonight, especially liberals, will be offended by the comment. my job is not to worry about those people, i'll never convince them that they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives. personal responsibility. personal responsibility. those of you in nursing homes, those in wheelchairs, those who depend on assistance by the government because we're a government of compassion, we have always been a country of compassion.

but all of a sudden, the republicans are putting up a candidate who wants to wipe away that because we want to privatize everything. the obama campaign has also responded. it's shocking that a candidate for president of the united states would go behind closed doors and declare to a group of wealthy donors that half the american people view themselves as victims entitled to handouts and are unwilling to take personal responsibility for their own lives. it's hard to serve as president for all americans when i have disdainfully written off half of the nation. that's exactly what mitt romney has done here with this statement behind closed doors. for months on this program, i have asked, will the real mitt romney stand up? in this video recording that he didn't know about, he got behind closed doors, we saw the really mitt romney. he did stand up. he doesn't give a damn about those who need assistance in this country. we are a society. we are a country of compassion. we want to help people who are downtrodden.

we want to help those who were dealt a tough deck of cards, whether it be in the economy, or whether it be health care, as of no fault of their own, or circumstances put on families that are totally out of their control. mitt romney wants to do away with those. he views those people as basically roadkill. he's not going to communicate to them and he's not going to offer up a better plan to make their lives better. he just says they should be personally responsible for who they are and where they are in america. i think that this is a blow for the republican party. it's a low for the conservative movement. if it's all about the money and if it's all about privatization, then truly this country will change if this man is elected president of the united states. get your cell phones out. i want to know what you think. tonight's question -- is this video proof of what mitt romney really believes about the poor in this country? text "a" for yes, text "b" for

no to 622639. you can always go to our blog. we'll bring you results later on in the show. earlier in an interview with george stephanopoulos and they were talking about the middle class, he made the comment about the middle class being around $250,000 in income. this man has no clue where america is. he hasn't walked the walk with any american who has struggled whatsoever. he was born with not only a silver spoon in his mouth, but a silver foot as well. joining me now is former ohio governor ted strickland, co-chair for the obama 2012 campaign. governor, great to have you with us tonight. this is clearly a shot over the bow when it comes to class warfare. that he's willing to pick and choose americans as to who he is going to serve if he's president of the united states. that's how i view this. your take? >> these are the most

reprehensible, despicable, pathetic words that i have ever heard come out of a candidate's mouth. i think this should disqualify him of ever being the president of our country. 47% of us, he says, really don't count. that we're freeloaders, that we consider ourselves victims. think about this. 47% of the people who voted for barack obama, that's who he's talking about, some of those people are serving us in afghanistan right now, risking their lives for mitt romney, for me, for you, for all americans. but apparently he considers them to be freeloaders. perhaps that's why he didn't bother to mention their sacrifice at the republican convention. this statement really, really, really shows his character and he's got a major character flaw. anyone who would talk about 47% of americans with the kind of disdain that he used with his

words simply -- i mean, why does he want to be the president of america? how can he possibly pull us together if he at the get-go has said that 47% of us are unworthy. >> i think it is a snapshot quickly of what we have suspected of mitt romney all along. i think this is the key part in his comment. he says, my job is not to worry about those people. i'll never convince them that they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives. this is a damning comment by a candidate who seems to have no concept of what people are going through in this country. it's almost as if i don't give a damn about them. i just got to get 10% of the the independents and we're going to be okay and get the kind of country we want. >> that's right. it's so sad. this man, who was born into wealth, who's never had to worry about whether or not his family had access to health care, whether or not his kids could

afford to go to college. he's never had an economic worry in his life. yet he can speak with such disdain, almost in a mocking way, about 47% of americans. and i would just ask the independents who may be wahing, please watch this complete video and then ask yourselves, is this the kind of man that we want to be the president of our country? this should disqualify mitt romney from the presidency. and i believe if more and more americans see this, they will reach that conclusion as well. >> former governor of ohio, ted strickland, thank you for your time. let's turn now to msnbc contributor and "washington post" columnist, e.j. dionne. i want to play this tape one more time. let's take a look and talk about it afterwards. here it is.

>> e.j., the comment, they believe they are victims. what do you think about that? >> i thought the whole thing was astonishing because the implication is that anyone who ever gets help from the government is dependent and a victim. by the way, i did the math. romney has set a daunting standard for himself. if he's right, that 47% is ruled out for him, that means he needs 94.5% of that 53% to win the election. so it's a very odd standard. but let's analyze, who is he talking about here? seniors on medicare and social security, well, they depend upon the government. are they part of that class? what about people on veterans benefits? what about students who want to work hard in their lives and get student loans to go to college? what about hard-working, low

income people who get help for their children under the health plan so they can get coverage? are all these people lazy and dependent? no. >> all of those things you're mentioning, this is an endorsement of the ryan plan. this sound bite that we have gotten from mitt romney behind closed doors is a full-throttle endorsement of the ryan plan. this is where they want to go. they are willing to have people in our society fall by the wayside. >> the suggestion is that somehow our country, the richest country in the world, a very hard-working country. we have short vacation times compared to a lot of the other wealthy countries. this is a hard-working country. to imply that somehow half of us are dependent is a real problem. the other thing is the deflection on taxes. he mentions income taxes. does that mean that people who pay the social security tax, sales taxes, property taxes, are they dependent because they

don't pay the income tax? and by the way, it does raise an unfortunate set of questions for him tomorrow. he paid, according to one tax return, 14% of his income. that's a lot less than upper middle class people, lawyers, accountants, doctors pay. because the government favors capital over labor. does that make capital dependent on government? i hope he's asked about it. >> and i think that -- this is how it's going to play on the right wing, i believe. that the blogosphere has started praising his remarks. romney was on message according to some. in some strange way, could this help romney with his base? >> i don't know. i think the folks who are going to respond positively to this were already voting against president obama. few people will turn out. but i just don't see how this statement helps him. there's so many people he is putting in that dependent category who think of themselves as hardworking republicans. so i don't see how this helps.

>> social security, medicare, i don't think he was talking about that. i think he was talking about medicaid. people who are on medicaid -- the elderly, no fault of their own, they don't want to be there. no one wants to be in poor circumstances. no one wants to be unemployed. is he talking about unemployment benefits as well? the 9e9ers, the whole group? i think this is a definition that we have heard in the past of two americas and he doesn't want to care about a portion of our society, which i find absolutely amazing. >> i do too. but to get to 47% of all of us, you've got to get up into the middle class. so he's talking about a vast swath of people. it's not even just the poorest people in our society. and i agree, the implication that a lot of these folks don't want to work. a lot of them do work and need extra help from government just to put food on the table for the kids.

>> not that the obama campaign needed a game changer, but let's call this a major eye opener. if you weren't following the campaign, you wanted to know who mitt romney is, they found out tonight. e.j., thank you for joining us. remember to answer tonight's question at the bottom of the screen. share your thoughts on twitter and facebook. we want to know what you think. 50 days until the election and the romney campaign is scrambling to change course. democratic strategist chris kafinas joins me next. what is happening to the romney campaign? can they recover? that's next. stay with us. otel added aflac to provide a better benefits package... oahhh! [ male announcer ] it made a big splash with the employees. [ duck yelling ] [ male announcer ] find out more at... [ duck ] aflac! [ male announcer ] ...forbusiness.com. ♪ ha ha!

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coming up, two months until the election day. the romney campaign tries to change course. and president obama gets tough on china. i'll ask tim ryan why the president's action to fight unfair trading practices would mean for jobs around the country. share your thoughts with us on facebook.

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let's solve this. welcome back to "the ed show." we're 50 days from the presidential election. and governor mitt romney is paying the price. romney is now the leader of the republican party that has spent the last four years doing what? trying to destroy president obama instead of creating a positive vision for the middle class in this country. they have badly missed the mark. today the romney campaign did something we rarely see in presidential campaigns. it held a press conference call in response to an article portraying its campaign in a free fall. the politico piece says romney's convention stumbles have provoked weeks of public griping and internal sniping about not only romney but also his chief

strategist, stuart stevens. in other words, mr. fix-it can't seem to run a campaign. so today romney's campaign strategists announced a shift in strategy. their new mantra will be -- "status quo versus change." the shift will reportedly collu include more specifics on policy. let's take a look at here's what mitt romney's brand new ad says. >> my plan is to help the middle class. trade has to work for america. that means crack down on cheaters like china and open up new markets. next, we have to balance the budget. you have to cut the deficit. we have to stop spending more money than we take in. and finally, champion small business. have tax policies, regulations and health care policies that help small business. we put those in place, we'll add 12 million new jobs in four years. >> real good generic pablam,

don't you think? after paying lip service to the middle class, romney talks about trade, the deficit, small business. offers no specifics because his campaign has no message for the middle class in this country. mitt romney doesn't even understand what the middle class is all about. here's romney in a recent interview. watch this. >> middle income is $200,000, $250,000 and less. don't raise taxes on middle income people. lower them. >> middle class is between $200,000 and $250,000 a year? mitt romney is so out of touch he thinks middle class income is between $200,000 and $250,000 a year? the republican party has done nothing to appeal to the middle class in this country. the largest voting bloc in this country has been ignored in this campaign season by the republicans across the board. on the question of who is better at advancing issues of the middle class, president obama holds a 15-point advantage. other polls show a similar result. now the republican party is trying to basically reinvent

themselves politically. trying to pretend they offer something to the middle class. but this is after four years of rooting against president obama and trying to block every single thing he's offered for the middle class and workers in this country. it's like -- i equate it to a sports fan, someone who buys a ticket to a ball game and so infed of going out and rooting for their team, they root against the other team. let's turn to democratic strategist, chris kofinis. good to have you with us. game changer, i know that phrase is thrown around a lot. but this is something that this tape could really dog the them to election day and be a problem for them. how do they get around it? >> well, i'm not sure they can. especially not with this team. here's the problem with this tape. it's not that it's shocking in

terms of what he said because it's what he's already said. what it does is reinforce this narrative that he doesn't really grasp what this election is really about. if you look at these two conventions, if you look at these two campaigns and look at the messages, you have an obama campaign that's focused like a laser on the middle class. how to improve the middle class lives. they are addressing their concerns. and you have a romney campaign that doesn't have any vision or idea how to address those middle class concerns. then when you see them behind closed doors, has disdain for anyone who is either struggling or in the middle class. just a bizarre logic to why you're running for president. >> chris, doesn't this put the republicans and the romney campaign in somewhat of an untenable position? their only move is to embrace this. they can't -- this is their only move. to go hard right, big time, as best they can. we have a story coming up later

in the show about the voter values conference. they went really right wing there. what other choice do they have here? >> none. you raised an important point in the last segment about how does this play with his base and the right wing. i actually think to your point, i think it helps him with the right wing and the base. >> which is what they have been starving for. >> it says to them, he is a right wing republican. but where it hurts him is those voters that are going to decide this election. the moderates, independents, undecideds, for those who will look at this kind of coldness he has to real people and to struggling people and that just turns off voters. people don't elect resumes. they elect human beings. >> does romney come out and talk about this tape? i want to go back, if i may. president obama has been down this road too. in april of 2008, president obama was also recorded at a fund-raiser where he was talking

about how folks sometimes cling to their guns and their bible. of course, that was an issue for some weeks that the right wing jumped all over. the president had to explain it. do you think mitt romney has to explain this tape? >> i think he's going to have to address it because the media is not going to let this one go. right now, there's a feeding frenzy. you see the story in politico about the campaign in disarray, the convention in disarray, the olympics gaffe. it's just one thing after another. >> you believe all that? >> that the campaign is in disarray? >> absolutely. >> oh, it is absolutely in disarray. if you look at where this campaign is, they have figured out how to make their candidate look worse. that is an accomplishment when it comes to mitt romney, in a lot of ways, but smart campaign teams make their candidates look better. they have done the opposite. what they have a difficult time with governor romney is he does it to himself. and that is the real difference between him and let's say president obama who is a very strong and good candidate.

>> it's interesting that he used the word victims. this is a guy who had a business model to ship jobs overseas. did he feel like he was victimizing any of those families that he was taking their jobs away from them because he was in a position to take profit, take retirement, blow up debt and shut down a company and ship the jobs and the manufacturing overseas? his vocabulary parallels in many instances. it just pours right off him. i think the guy is totally out of touch. chris, thank you for joining us on "the ed show." next, republicans have spent decades promising tax cuts can fix the economy. tonight there's new research that shows us exactly why the republicans have been wrong for so long. we will do the math when we come back. stay with us. [ male announcer ] with a driving range

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welcome back to "the ed show." this has been one of the republicans' favorite narratives for the past two decades. you know, in the radio business it's like ta dee -- that deejay that gets a new time slot and really wants to make it work so we'll play the hits. pick the hot song and play it and people are probably going to like you.

when you have a new republican out on the stump trying to get elected, they have to do the same thing. here are the republicans' greatest hits on tax cuts. >> read my lips. no new taxes. >> if you raise taxes, you're taking money out of the pockets of consumers. >> my lowering everyone's tax rates all the way up the income scale, each of us will have a greater incentive to climb higher, to excel, to help america grow. >> i don't want to raise taxes on anybody. i want to make sure we make america an attractive place for growing the economy and creating jobs. >> they are taking money from small businesses and families and spending it. that doesn't work. it's bad economics. >> actually, it looks like paul ryan's economics are wrong. a nonpartisan arm of congress tested the republican theory that cutting taxes grows the economy. they released the findings today. it's not good for mitt romney. take a look. george h.w. bush went back on

his promise and raised taxes back in 1990. three years later, president bill clinton raised the top marginal tax rate, look what happened. the gdp growth went up for five years. in fact, it skyrocketed. growth peaked in the first quarter of the year 2000. that's when george w. bush goes back to their old hit song "cut taxes." and look what happened. growth plummets and the bush tax cuts got deeper in 2003 and the economy went off the deep end. you can't deny it. but this is romney's new plan. he wants to reduce taxes even more than president bush did. and this research out today shows that romney and republicans got it all wrong. they have been wrong for 20 years. cutting taxes is not going to help the economy and it might even hurt the economy. "the new york times" asked so-called budget expert paul ryan about this research on tax

cuts. the reporter even showed ryan a similar chart that i'm showing you tonight. ryan said, some of this is just the timing, not the person. really? the person and the policy don't count? you better believe they do. ryan thinks what this chart shows is a coincidence, but the man who was in charge of this economic success says this. >> it's arithmetic. we simply cannot afford to give the reins of government to someone who will double down on trickle down. >> and here's one more interesting fact in this research today. the republican tax cuts aren't fair. people who make $1 million or more per year got a 7% tax break when george w. bush's tax cuts kicked in. what did middle class americans get? they got less than half of that. let's turn to david k. johnson,

pulitzer prize-winning journalist and author of "the fine print." great to have you with us. will it help the economy if mitt romney cuts more taxes? because that's what he's out there saying. he wants to cut more taxes. bottom line, americans want to know, is it going to help the economy if he does? >> the evidence since 1945 is, no, it will hurt the economy, especially in recent years. what this study shows, ed, is that the top tiny group, the top 1 in 1,000 americans, back at the end of world war ii, they got this much income. now they get this much. it's redistributing income upwards and it's not helping the vast majority of americans at all. >> i want to play this tape of mitt romney one more time. i'll remind our viewers that this was provided to "mother jones" magazine. it was recorded at a fund-raiser and governor romney did not know he was being recorded. here it is.

>> david, what about the 47% that mr. romney throws out there that don't pay federal taxes. he throws that out there as if these 47% of americans who don't pay federal taxes, they're really the ones who are screwing the country? >> first of all, it's only for two years that's true. it's going to fall back into the 30s. if it weren't for the republicans passing the child tax credit, it would fall back to the low 30s. but the majority of people who fall in this category of not paying federal income taxes are either elderly, which means they probably worked their whole lives and are now retired and romney is saying they are not workers, or they are workers who make less than $20,000 a year, which tells you these are people who have crummy jobs at crummy wages. that's who he is insulting.

people working at low wages, or who have worked their whole life and are retiring because that's most of that 47%. >> how important is it for the american people to grasp that a tax cut isn't always the best thing for the economy? i mean, i think most americans believe, gosh, if we cut taxes we'll have a better economy because more people will have more money to spend. clearly it doesn't turn out that way. >> ed, it doesn't. in my new book that comes out tomorrow, there's a chapter about how in my neighborhood we voted to raise taxes. for every extra dollar of tax i pay, i have $1.80 more cash in my pocket. my book explains why. paying higher taxes can sometimes makes you better off if it buys things in a group fashion and lowers some service or good you need. >> looking forward to reading it. david, thank you for being on "the ed show." coming up, mitt romney has the nerve to attack president obama for being too soft on china?

does this guy follow the news? the president fights back with the facts and announces a new trade case against china. congressman tim ryan of ohio will weigh in on this and tell us exactly what it means and what the obama administration has done with china in the past. we're right back. princesses. i'm an expert on softball. and tea parties. i'll have more awkward conversations than i'm equipped for because i'm raising two girls on my own. i'll worry about the economy more than a few times before they're grown. but it's for them, so i've found a way. who matters most to you says the most about you. massmutual is owned by our policyholders so they matter most to us. massmutual. we'll help you get there.

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can't let 'em see what you're drinking. you know, i'm glad we're both running a nice, clean race. no need to get nasty. here's your "honk if you had an affair with taylor" yard sign. looks good. [ male announcer ] fedex office. now save 50% on banners. welcome back to "the ed show." president obama continues to get tough on china over unfair trade practices. this cuts right to the fabric of the middle class. at a cincinnati rally earlier today, the president announced his administration filed yet another trade case against beijing. >> today my administration is launching a new action against china. this one against illegal subsidies that encourage companies to ship auto parts manufacturing jobs overseas and we are going to stop it. it is not right. it's against the rules and we will not let it stand. >> the case accuses china of providing $1 billion worth of

illegal subsidies for auto parts it exports. these subsidies caused two major problems here in the united states. they flood the american market with cheap chinese auto parts undercutting our own products. and also encourage the outsourcing of american manufacturing jobs to china. by doing this, china is putting american auto jobs at risk. and it's exactly what president obama is trying to stop. meanwhile, mitt romney desperate, campaign is trying to make the president look soft on china. they put out this commercial last week. >> seven times obama could have stopped china's cheating. seven times, he refused. >> it's time to stand up to the cheaters and make sure we protect jobs for the american people. >> barack obama, failing to stop cheating. >> romney's commercial is absolutely full of holes. president obama made that clear earlier today. >> we've brought more trade

cases against china in one term than the previous administration did in two. and every case we brought that's been decided, we won. >> where are the fact checkers? president obama has done a number of things to crack down on china and mitt romney hasn't always agreed with them. >> when governor romney said that stopping unfair surges in chinese tires would be bad for america, bad for our workers, we ignored his advice and we got over 1,000 americans back to work. >> and in 2009 president obama put a tax on chinese tires, putting 1,000 americans back to work. in his book, romney slammed president obama for that move calling it, quote, decidedly bad for our nation and our workers. on top of all of this, romney's record on china is clear. while at bain capital, he profited off companies shipping jobs to china.

according to ""the boston globe," investments made on romney's behalf are in chinese manufacturing companies that profit from unfair trade practices. you got the facts. now you can decide. for more, let's turn to congressman tim ryan of ohio. congressman, great to have you with us tonight. these simply are the facts. what do you make of romney attacking the president for being too soft on china? >> i got to tell you, it's actually laughable. having been on the ground the last few years through the obama administration, watching what he did with tires, that tariff that he put on created jobs in northwest ohio, just a little bit south of toledo. he also put tariffs on steel tubing that was getting dumped in the country from china. and that tariff that he put on led to almost a $700 million steel mill being created here in youngstown, ohio. for anyone who wants to look at it, i'm listening.

tomorrow i'm going to take a picture of this new steel mill that with the help of obama's tariffs is located here. i will tweet it so everybody can see what obama's policies have done for ohio. >> how dangerous are these subsidies that china is giving to its auto sector? could this slow down the momentum of what we have seen in your state of ohio and in michigan when it comes to auto manufacturing and all the domino effect it has on the different industries that come together to make automobiles work in this corrupt country? >> absolutely. one in every eight jobs in ohio is directly or indirectly related to the automobile industry. we have a plan here. 4,500 jobs. that's just scratching the surface here in youngstown. you go down the supply chain, you have the seats, the logistics -- >> aren't the chinese countering this with the subsidies? congressman, aren't the chinese just going right at this? >> absolutely. absolutely.

it's been damaging to the economy now not just in ohio, michigan, indiana, but yeah, they're cheating. that's what they are doing. they are subsidizing automobile parts to come into america and undercut the american companies. a lot of these are small, midsized companies. they are in the auto supply chain. they supported communities for a long time. these are the small businesspeople that mitt romney talks about. if his book would have come out a couple months later, he would have been against the steel tubing tariffs the president put on. this is damaging. the president is acting forcefully. he's moving in the right direction. on top of this straight auto jobs from the auto companies, he's now protecting the parts supplier. i think it's a no-brainer if you're a small business manufacturer in ohio who you should vote for. >> i have to ask about the tape of mitt romney behind closed doors. your thoughts on his comments and what he said?

>> i tell you, you get mad, but i think it's sad. it's sad that a candidate for a major party in america, running for president is so insensitive and so disconnected to what average families are going through. those are medicaid recipients. those are people that have kids that have down syndrome. >> what does it tell you about his character and who he really is? >> well, he's not one of us. he's disconnected from reality. he doesn't connect to the average person because these are the struggles and programs that average people rely upon in ohio and rely upon in american. it's coldhearted. there's no other way to say it than he's disconnected and he's coldhearted. i don't think there's any place -- it's sad that there's a room full of people that have been so successful and nobody in that room thought that, you know, this maybe is a little insensitive and there are some people that may need some help here. >> it's class warfare, no question about it.

very insensitive. tim ryan, great to have you with us on "the ed show." thanks so much. paul ryan embraces the radical ideology of the christian right values summit over the weekend. the reverend barry lynn will weigh in on that. stay with us.

coming up, reverend lynn joins me to discuss the summit and the romney campaign's embrace of the far right wing. stay tuned. we're back. [ male announcer ] the 2013 smart comes with 8 airbags, a crash management system and the world's only tridion safety cell which can withstand over three and a half tons. small in size. big on safety.

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in our survey, i asked is the video of mitt romney speaking about the poor at a fundraiser proof of what he really believes about the poor in this country? 98% say yes. coming up, rick santorum admits the truth. voters aren't concerned with the facts.

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in the big finish tonight, it was a gather of right wingers and one former terrorist. the voter summit was held over the weekend. the event is run by the fami research council, an organization recently labeled as a hate group by the southern law center for its anti-gay ideology. and the republican presidential

ticket warmly embraced it. they got paul ryan in the flesh. ryan called romney a defender of marriage and hit the president on abortion by pedaling the same old lies. other speakers included michele bachmann, bob mcdonald of virginia, and rick santorum. santorum pointed out, with pride i might add, that a true values voter never lets facts or information get in the way of their gut instincts. >> we'll never have the media on our side, ever in this country. we will never have the elite, smart people on our side because they believe they should have the power to tell you what to do. >> right wing pundit gary bower riled up the crowd urging them to get out and vote. >> there will be a lot of people to vote for the president. there's a lot of people around

america who depend on checks from their fellow taxpayers being in the mailbox every day. they will turn out in massive numbers. my prediction is after all the votes are counted, even the dead votes of democrats in chicago, detroit and cleveland, i predict that we will win. that this national nightmare will be over. >> let's turn to barry lynn, executive director of americans united for separation of church and state, who obviously was at that conference as an observer, not a participant, i might add. what does this tell us about the republican ticket that they proudly embrace this kind of talk? >> they are absolutely desperate. there's no question that what they need now is to convince evangelical christians that even if mitt romney isn't really a christian, he's christian enough to vote for over president obama. i wrote in "the washington post"

last winter when push comes to shove, this election is going to come down not just to the economy, but to religion. what we heard was speaker after speaker and workshop after workshop is how do we bring these hot button social issues, put them front and center so the core conservative voters will know who to vote for. they are desperate. >> is it true they help clinics to explain to people at the pulpit on sunday and how to maneuver around the tax laws in this country to make sure to get their political message across? >> absolutely. there was a speaker at one of the workshops who said, you should defy the irs. violate the tax code that prohibits churches and other charities from endorsing a candidate, using those church dollars. just ignore the law. just do it any way. let them come and get you. in each and every way, they want

to get voter turnout whether it's legal or illegal because they know that they've got to get this core of red meat conservative right wingers out to the polls or it's all over. >> we saw paul ryan really turn to the right over the weekend. would you agree with that? >> there's no doubt about it. paul ryan went out there, talked about abortion as if it was the single most important issue. for that crowd, it certainly is because they stand up and applaud wildly every time he says anything about it. he doesn't care to talk about the poor. he doesn't care to talk about how to help public schools. it's all privatize, religionize and get with the program. their message said god wants you to vote for romney. and god would vote for him himself if he was a registered voter. >> i have to ask you about the tape that we played a number of times on this program tonight